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02 August 2008 @ 11:38 pm
Breaking Dawn, discussion  
After 13 hours and 24 minutes of voracious reading, I have AT LAST finished reading Breaking Dawn... and holy cow, what a day.

So, since this book is rather different from other Sparticus Ni sessions, I'm providing a number possible topics of discussion under the cut. Answer as many as you want, but feel free to deviate from them to go off on your own raves, rants, comments, concerns, and general squee-ing over Edward's magnificence.

DISCUSSION STARTER TOPICS
1. Before you started to read Breaking Dawn, how did you think the series was going to end? Did you think Bella would become a vampire?

2. What did you originally make of Bella's reoccuring nightmares that featured an ominous child and the advancing threat of the Voltouri? Did you think it held any particular significance? What about when Bella's feelings toward the dream-child changed from horror to a desire to protect?

3. What was your first reaction when Bella realized she might be pregnant with Edward's child? Did you possibly realize it before she did? What did you make of Edward's petrified reaction?

4. Point of view shift?! How did you like hearing the story told from Jacob's perspective? Was it strange to you after listening to Bella's side of the story consistently for three books? Did you like this choice?

5. Bella's pregnancy felt like something out of a horror movie. How did you react to seeing our heroine so incapacitated and so stubbornly resolved to keeping her baby? How did you feel about Rosalie's protectiveness of the unborn baby and of Bella (...by association)? What did you think of Edward's desperate plea to Jacob-- was he overreacting?

6. Looking back, how clearly did Meyer set up Jacob's imprint on Renesmee? Did you think Jacob and Renesemee were a good match? Considering that it effectively solved all of the Cullen's problems with the werewolves, was it perhaps too good of a match?

7. What was your reaction to Bella's vampiric transformation? Was it what you expected? Were you surprised when Bella did not behave like a regular newborn vampire, but behaved shockingly like an "improved" version of herself? Did you feel she was improved?

8. How did you feel Edward and Bella fit into their roles as parents? Did you find the transition from "teenage lovers" to "dedicated parents" a hard mental switch to make, or did it seem natural considering the growth of their relationship? Were they believeable as parental figures?

9. Before starting the book, did you have a guess as to what Bella's "superhero" vampire power would be? What did you make of her sheilding powers? And what did you think about Renesmee's thought projection "superpowers"?

10. How did you take Alice's apparent disappearance during the Cullen's time of need? Were you surprised that she and Jasper cut-and-run? Did you think she had something more up her sleeve?

11. Breaking Dawn introduced a whole array of new vampires that Jacob felt he needed an index just to keep them all straight (lucky him, one was provided on page 756)!! Did you like the inclusion of these new vampire friends? Who was your favorite new vampire and whose "superpower" impressed you the most?

12. The final confrontation with the Voltouri. Was it everything you imagined? Were you hoping for something more climactic?

13. And finally, the ending. Were you pleased by the ending, where Edward, Bella, and Renesmee are united happily ever after? Was it a satisfactory finale to the Twilight Saga as a whole? Was there anything lacking that you might have added to make the ending more fulfilling?

14. Any other thoughts on the book as a whole? Any particular Edward (okay, fine, OR Jacob...) moments/quotes that were particularly swoon-worthy?
 
 
Current Mood: accomplishedaccomplished
Current Music: love letters, atonement
 
 
 
Kirstenfreak4theater on August 3rd, 2008 08:03 am (UTC)
I have a lot to say:
1. Before I even started reading Breaking Dawn, I had held a secret hope that Edward would become human again. This was brought on by a moment, I believe, in the first book where he makes some comment that “if I could become human for you I would”, or something to that effect. So as much as I wanted to see Bella become a vampire, I was holding out some hope that a normal human life might be the grand finale for our lovebirds.

3. Holy shit, when Bella thought she might be pregnant with Edward’s baby… my first thought was “Crap. What?” and then a horrifying sensation that I had stumbled onto bad Twilight fanfiction. It seemed so… strange that a teenage romance heroine could suddenly be knocked up. By her undead husband, no less. In my opinion, this was a bad move by Meyer and definitely killed off a lot of the cutesy, mushy Edward-Bella-lovin’ that drew me to the series in the first place.

4. I kind of enjoyed hearing Jacob’s point of view. His humor and thought-conversations were a breath of fresh air for a while there. But, not going to lie, this section of the book DRAGGED on and on and I was certainly done hearing about the little terror in Bella’s uterus.

5. Because what the HELL. Bella’s delivery was messed up. Disgusting. Not to mention all the agony she put Edward and all the Cullen’s through during the (what, week-long?) pregnancy. To me, this whole scheme seemed very unbelievable and I was frustrated with Bella’s lack of self-awareness to see that the baby was killing her. I also had a hard time believing her sudden desire to be a mother so badly. In short, this whole sequence made me really angry. Rosalie and Bella were both being little bitches (Rosalie for ignoring Bella’s best interested and Bella for egging on Jacob CONSTANTLY and hurting Edward with her selfishness).

7. I did not expect Bella’s transformation to be such a sudden and life-saving decision. Since from the beginning Bella had insisted Edward be the one to “change” her, I had always pictured it as a, well, sexier and more intimate event. I did like the idea that the venom that makes people into “monsters” could be seen in a restorative and even positive light—being the only thing that could save Bella from her (demon)child. However, Bella’s transformed self was a little frustrating to me at first, and took some getting used to. I felt for awhile that I didn’t know this Bella—that she was too graceful, too confident, too perfect to be the heroine of the story. Luckily, this imaged diminished with time, but it took adjusting. Honestly, I wished that her transformation could have taken place much later in the story. Before reading, I had thought that the very last scene would be Bella being bitten by Edward, and then would be followed up in an epilogue a few years later once her newborn-ness had faded.

8. If adjusting to vampire Bella was hard, adjusting to Mommy Bella and Daddy Edward was much, much harder. In fact, it was very difficult for me. It was easier to consider them parents, though, after Bella was a vampire because she suddenly seemed older and more mature then… but it was still strange. I really missed the exploratory, innocent, and eager aspect their relationship lost once Renesmee was born.
Kirstenfreak4theater on August 3rd, 2008 08:03 am (UTC)
even more, actually:

12. Sadly, I was definitely hoping for more out of my Voltouri encounter. Yes, I was glad that no Cullens died in the process, but honestly, Eclipse had a more exciting finale—which should not be the case. A lot of the last few scenes there were hanging on the suspense of whether or not they would have to fight—but there was so much build up in the preceding chapters that I was left angry that we wasted so much time worrying when everything turned out peachy keen in the end anyway. Shouldn’t we be at all concerned that the Voltouri are still out there, possibly plotting revenge against our heroes? Don’t they have all of eternity to strike again? Couldn’t we have at least had the satisfaction of killing off some of the more sadistic Voltouri members? I was pleased that Bella was able to step up to the plate to FINALLY do something to protect both herself and the people she cares about… but that wasn’t enough of a climax for me.

13. Unfortunately, I did not feel this was a satisfactory end to the Twilight Saga. After 13-plus hours of reading, I am left weary and disappointed. I was hoping for so much more. Though I knew coming in that this isn’t the most astonishing book series—I read it for the fluffy, girly parts, okay? That’s what it’s good for. I’m all for happy endings, but even for me this ending was a little too perfect. While by the end I was finally able to accept Renesmee (God, what a hideous name…) as a worthy member of the Cullen family and as Edward and Bella’s baby, something about their ideally-happy family rubbed me the wrong way. I’m not sure what I would have done differently to change this fact, but something was lacking.

14. My general reaction to this book was disappointment, regrettably. I wanted nothing more than to enjoy this ending, but I just don’t feel like I got what I needed from it. I enjoyed the beginning… the middle was agonizingly drawn-out, and the dénouement left a lot to be desired. Stephenie Meyer had my hopes very high… and this did nothing to satisfy them. Sigh.
Kirstenfreak4theater on August 3rd, 2008 09:47 pm (UTC)
Wait... more today.
After chatting on the phone with Reggie about this depressing last book, we have come to the ultimate conclusion of why it is so painfully unrealistic and unfitting with the rest of the series. Twilight's main messages are those of forbidden love and sacrifice. Edward's primary concern has always been sacrificing Bella's humanity and past in order for her to become an immortal vampire with him-- this was his only reason for waiting four books to bite her. In order for the two of them to be happy together, this sacrifice (or, Edward loosing his immortality and vampire powers to miraculously become human again) would have to be made in order for our star-crossed lovers to be together. This idea was completely TRASHED in Breaking Dawn. There was no sacrifice made in order to reach their happy ending. In fact, they only gained. This makes their union so unreal and so unbelieveable, that, as a reader, it is hard to bear with good grace. This ending is literally TOO perfect, in every sense of the word.

Also, as Reggie and I talked about, this perfect ending promotes an unfounded argument for teen pregnancy. The majority of Meyer's readers are young-- too young, possibly, to understand that boyfriends/husbands like Edward do not exist. Edward represents the ultimate fictional boyfriend-- he is everything that (even evolutionary-wise) women want in a mate, only amplified. He is strong, protective, loving, (gorgeous), and gentlemanly. At first, the books suggested a positive relationship model for young girls, showing Edward and Bella waiting to explore the sexual side of their relationship until after they were married, at Edward's request. But suddenly, mere days after the wedding, Bella is hugely pregnant and keeping the baby... but her story ends in perfect fairytale fashion with her storybook house, faithful husband, limitlessly wealthy in-laws, and a darling little baby. Real life does not fall into place so snugly. I can only hope that Meyer's younger readers recognize this and don't think it's socially acceptable to follow this teen pregnancy media trend.

In addition, considering that most of Meyer's readers are in the under-25 category, making Bella a mother was a hugely alienating mistake. Very few readers can empathize with Bella's desire to raise a child and cannot understand her strange, fanatical need to carry a child that is so clearly killing her. Also, why would Meyer tell this portion of the story though Jacob's point of view if she didn't want her readers to see how uncompromisingly stubborn Bella was acting? Perhaps-- PERHAPS-- the idea of Bella and Edward becoming parents would have been easier if we understood what Bella was going through and shared her desire. But we, the readers, did not know Renesmee, did not like what she was doing to our heroine, and did not want her ruining our Edward-Bella romance (because she totally did... poor Edward got kicked to the sidelines the minute Renesmee was on the scene and was suddenly barely even mentioned. Lame for him).
ringbearer_89ringbearer_89 on August 4th, 2008 01:58 am (UTC)
She's definitely not living up to the comparisons....
1. I pretty much expected that Bella would become a vampire from day one of my Twilight experience. As for how it would end...I had no clue. I pretty much expected ANYTHING but this.

2. I figured there would be something about a child...I didn't think it would be Bella's, but I was excited that there might be a bit Vegetarians vs. Voltouri smackdown.

3. That was pretty much the only thing in the book that I didn't see coming before it happened. I thought Edward's reaction was....in a way kind of realistic if Edward was an actual teenager, but he's a vampire so...I didn't think he'd completely shut out Bella while she was obviously freaking out too!

4. At first I was annoyed by the shift to Jacob, but then, as I kept reading, I was really happy that she did that!! I mean, Bella's pregnancy through her own eyes would have been excruciatingly painful and annoying. I LOVED all of his blonde jokes towards Rosalie.

5. It was weird, annoying, and so unbelievably stupid, I can't really say much past that...Bella went from being a normal teenage girl to a protective mother in like, five minutes.

6. I saw it coming way before it happened and wanted to heave....Definitely a neatly wrapped package tied up with a bow. How convenient that his imprinting would solve a love triangle that was disputed for TWO WHOLE BOOKS.

7. The transformation should've been EPIC, but no, it was a way to save the holy baby....too convenient that she skipped the normal savage period of a newborn vampire. I miss the clumsy Bella.

8. Considering that I'm the age Bella is in this book, I found it....weird how all of a sudden we were supposed to believe that Bella is a devoted mommy now...It's just too strange! And kind of (this is becoming a common word in my description of this book) annoying.

10. I knew that Alice wouldn't just leave them, but it was so dumb how she just showed up at the end. I think Stephenie Meyer took the concept of Deus ex machina and went crazy with it.

12. As much as I would've hated for any of the Cullen's to die, I wanted a massive battle! I could've survived with some Cullen casualties, but seriously? Not one ounce of action? I feel cheated!!

13. It was too easy. In Harry Potter the trio all got their happy-family endings, but they also had to deal with sacrifices and they pretty much had enough evil and death in their childhoods to deserve their happily ever after, but Edward and Bella had a few painful what-if's and then it was over and presto-happiness "Forever and forever and forever."

14. This is one reason why I try and pick the books I read (and invest my time and emotions into) carefully. Just because someone gets published doesn't mean they're meant to. I'm not saying that Stephenie Meyer isn't talented, her first three books were great! But she just doesn't seem to have the scope or the immense awesomeness of that other first-time writer that everyone in the media seems to like to compare her too. (JKRowlingcoughcough). I understand that she can relate to loving a child and being a protective mother, since she is one herself, but um, hello? Regular teenagers have no idea, and probably (hopefully) won't for many years to come....sigh, I'm sleepy now.
Kirstenfreak4theater on August 4th, 2008 06:52 pm (UTC)
Re: She's definitely not living up to the comparisons....
I'm with you ALL the way, Rebecca. And I hadn't even thought about how vampire!Bella has now completely done away with her charming clumsiness. I was so focused on her growth of confidence and beauty that I didn't even realize that she lost one of the traits that MAKES her Bella!!
kylahbirdkylahbird on August 4th, 2008 04:57 am (UTC)
First of all I must say, Kirsten, I commend you on your ability to appear so neutral before the cut when I know you were actually seething while scratching out the pages of Breaking Dawn with your fingernails. Second is that I can't even believe that happened, that that book, nay, that abomination (much like Bella's baby) was allowed to happen. Yet in spit of all this I am not so much angry with Stephanie Meyer as I morn the death of her sanity. She has obviously become a raving lunatic or her mind has reverted back to the state of an “evil Slytherin” 13 year old.

NOTE*
Evil Slytherin- (n.) term from Harry Potter fan-verse indicating a “not a cool Slytherin”, a fan (usually sadistic young girls) who love characters from the house of Slytherin best not because they get a kick out of the antics of blonde jerks but because they want to do freaky things with them and find greasy hair sexy. i.e. the school’s color guard is full of evil Slytherins.

NOTE**
How lame was it when she added a footnote right in the middle of a story, lame as it was? I mean hello, do you want to remind me that I am reading a book anymore then you are already because I’m totally not into this.

1. I was banking on the possibility of Edward turning human again, I got the idea from another series that I read years ago where something very similar happened and turned out quite well. I guess after three books of putting it off and anticipation that it would be a maybe smarter and more unexpected resolution. I first thought I saw signs of it being tipped off when Carlisle mentioned that in his human life Edward had green eyes. I would have liked this to happen at the end though and maybe show him adjusting a bit in an epilogue, it would have been cute to see him acclimating to her world after she spent three books acclimating to his. I must say I would have farther preferred that ending or, as Kirsten said, having Bella be changed at the very end and seeing her as a Vampire in the epilogue.

2. I didn't really know what to think about the baby dreams, I feel like I was trying not to just because I didn't want anything baby related to spring up because there are just too many really bad fanfictions on exactly that subject I'm sure written by the kind of weird people I never want to meet. I guess that I supposed that the a baby was just something Bella would have to sacrifice for Edward and maybe it was a metaphor for her humanity and her anxieties about becoming a vampire. I must admit that I squealed when Edward said that he wished he could give her a baby back before they got married because it was sad and he's so considerate and I love that about him.

3. I realized for sure that she was pregnant when she picked the blue box out of her luggage. Then my reaction was "oh fuck, she can't be serious". Then I got really mad because it was so not in the spirit of anything I loved about these books. I realized that this was going to change everything and I was about to get majorly screwed. I also realized that this book will NEVER become a movie and all production will probably be halted after New Moon if they're lucky and that made me angry because Eclipse is my favorite. I had a plan, after Twilight they're budget would go up and they'd fire the psychotic director for someone who actually knows what they're doing (and isn't crazy)so by the time they got to 3 it would be awesome. So all that went up in smoke. Then I also thought how ironic that bumper sticker I saw on facebook the other day was: Edward Cullen can't impregnate me, but I'd let him try...again, again and again. By the way this all happened instantaneously.

4. Jacob is really funny so I liked hearing him though I still don't really like the fact that she added that. She had just punched me in the face with Bella's surprise and then she was going to switch it up on me and I was really needing familiarity at that point. As much as I like Jacob the whole middle part of the book WENT ON FOREVER and I plowed through it trying to get to the end, the rest of the book was like that for me I just wanted it to end.

Kirstenfreak4theater on August 4th, 2008 06:56 pm (UTC)
I had forgotten that Edward had said he wished he could give her a baby. Bet he wishes he could take that back now, eh??
kylahbirdkylahbird on August 6th, 2008 06:18 pm (UTC)
I don't care if Edward is a creature of the night, he KNEW that baby was a demon and then it went and voodooed everyone into thinking the loved it. No happily ever after there because the baby won! Now they will live forever under it's sick illusion!
kylahbirdkylahbird on August 4th, 2008 04:58 am (UTC)
5. Bella's pregnancy was really really scary and scarier still because she didn't seem to realize that she was caring the devil's baby. She THOUGHT she was banging Edward but oh no it was a sadistic creature in disguise. That thing was a monster killing her from the inside, there was more blood and gore in that two weeks of pregnancy than I've ever read in any other book. Obviously it was evil if it was going to have to chew it's way out of it's mother's stomach like in Alien. I really do NOT know what Stephanie Meyer was thinking, has the woman never seen Rosemary's Baby? Then she expects us to instantly love the baby, hi, I was HORRIFIED by it! I so wanted that thing to be extracted but I knew who I was dealing with (met her husband at 16, married and raising kids by 23, Mormon, Utah)and it wasn't going to happen.

6. Renesmee (stupidest name ever, I sat there five minutes going WHAT? when I first heard it) and Jacob are weird. I realize that she was trying to do right by Jacob but that was making everything too perfect. I would have much more preferred Jacob going out as a wolf and running away. He would have been the tragic character that would balance out the happiness of Bella and Edward because too much happy is death to any story. Stephanie Meyer talks a lot of crap about balance for someone who would end a story the way she did. It's like my old English teacher used to say: "Why do we like sad movies so much? It's because we need emotional balance in our lives or we go crazy, sometimes we need to be sad or happy or scarred". THERE WAS NO BALANCE! For a book about vampires everything was surprisingly sunshine and rainbows.

7. I did not like vampire Bella, it was not the Bella I've been reading all this time. That was exactly the reason I did not want to see Bella as a vampire except for very very shortly or something in an epilogue. She lost all her charm when she became a vampire. I mean I like that she was so in love with Edward and that she was falling in love with him all over again but it also cheapened, I felt, her love with him while she was a human. I feel like the first three books were just thrown out the window at that point and like they weren't supposed to compare.

8. I did not like the parenting thing, she totally missed her audience with that. She turned Edward into a side character and the depth of the books were lost because it was not about love and sacrifice anymore, it was about this freaky little baby. We're teenagers and the vast majority of us don't want kids yet and if confronted with one we'd want to get rid of it and feel like our lives could be potentially ruined by keeping it. I feel like she was projecting herself way too much because frankly, when it comes to kids we do not understand the way she feels. Bella went from someone I could to relate with to someone I just didn't get. I hope she realizes that she just created a legion of little girls who are going to want to skip college to have babies with the boys they wished were Edward.
Kirstenfreak4theater on August 4th, 2008 07:01 pm (UTC)
You're right about the book being too sunshine and rainbows for a VAMPIRE book. When I think vampires, I do not think happy-sunshine. I think of Forks. And clouds. Clouds of impending dooooom.

And I definitely agree that Bella becoming a vampire seemed to cheapen her original love for Edward. She kept saying how her human memories were murky and undefined-- but we, the readers, remember them very clearly and love them dearly! And poor Edward, who still remembers them with the same clarity but must now almost re-invest his love in her.
kylahbirdkylahbird on August 4th, 2008 04:59 am (UTC)
9. Bella's power was lame, I'm sorry, and it was not very imaginative. Once again it was something out of a fanfiction that was not well thought out. Same with Renesmee (her name was not well thought out either, I just can't get over that. This is exactly the reason why teenagers should not have babies, they suck at naming them.) Just from the second Bella said she was pregnant I didn't feel like I was involved in the story like I'd always been, I felt uninvolved like I was hovering above it.

10. That was lame. Alice would never run and if she were to she would have been way more impressive coming back. She would have saved them in an epic battle, not just show up at the end up the anticlimactic pow-wow.

11. See note above. So unnecessary...

12. I was hoping at least for a fight, some action, some excitement because at that point of the book I just wanted it to end. They just talk and walk away, it should have been epic. They didn't even resolve the conflict with the Voltouri which was the whole point of the book because that was the only legitimate reason for having a number 4, but of course it was only so Jacob could get a girlfriend. Not that it mattered much anymore because there was no coming back from the whole baby thing.

13. Way too happy ever after in a sickening way with the little family in their quaint little cottage covered in flowers and sparkles and crap. Like I said, NO balance. I know it's gunna make some weirdos reeeeeeally happy but I just wanted to throw up. I've seen Bella do it enough times. The only thing that could make me happy was forgetting that that "thing" existed and thinking about how sweet it would be to get to make out with Edward for the rest of eternity.

14. My favorite part of the book, way back in the beginning before it all went wrong was when Bella and Edward were laying in bed being cute and them Emmet and Jasper (or Em and Jazz as they became and where did that come from because once it started it was like they were renamed, problem) busted through the window and dragged Edward off to his bachelor party.

Overall I was just plain disappointed. I really don't know what Stephanie Meyer was thinking. I would love nothing more than to hop in the TARDIS with the Doctor, go back to the second after Meyer penned the words "I think I'm pregnant" jump out, slap her across the face and yell "BAD!" pointing my finger in her face. Then the Doctor says something witty and we run back in the TARDIS and vorp away before she even realizes what happened. That would save me so much grief. Because really it didn't even feel like I was reading a Twilight book.

I have a solution though, Breaking Dawn does not exist, very much in the way that Pirates 3 does not exist. I will not let this ruin Twilight for me or ruin Edward. Defend against fools! That's more than a motto, it's a promise. Sisters! (until we can get some brothers) I call you to arms, erase this abomination from your minds for the sake of as all, erase it from history and let us be left with what was good because this is for the communal good.

How someone on such a roll could go so wrong when they were almost cemented to the right direction I'll never know. All I do know is that somewhere JKR is laughing.
ringbearer_89ringbearer_89 on August 4th, 2008 02:50 pm (UTC)
My guess is that her publishers didn't even read the thing. They were like, okay, lets see how many gullible teenagers we can get to stuff our pockets with money when they buy this thing.

In my mind, Breaking Dawn was just some weird nightmare I had and will not remember in a few weeks time.
Kirstenfreak4theater on August 4th, 2008 07:06 pm (UTC)
Seriously-- her publisher's CAN'T have read this. Otherwise, they are far more to blame that Stephenie. Because those fiends were the ones to be like, "Bella get's pregnant. Oh COOL. Yes. Write that. It's perfect.... wait, you say there's no fight at the end? Well, that's okay, Steph. Bella has a baby and Jacob imprints on it. So that's fine. What are you still standing here for-- get to it!!"

It makes me want to cry.
kylahbirdkylahbird on August 6th, 2008 06:29 pm (UTC)
WAIT, COULD THIS BE IT???
I'm wondering...Is Forever Dawn the key? The original epic 700+ page novel that Stephanie wrote for her sister's birthday? She wrote it after New Moon and it was supposed to be the original conclusion to the series but she said that in writing it she "forgot what audience I was writing for" and ended up writing Eclipse and then eventually Breaking Dawn to replace it. Is Forever Dawn the book we were waiting for and never got? Is that where she put all her time and effort so that by the time she got to number four she felt like she was re-writing and didn't put as much heart in it? Or did she write Forever Dawn which she already admitted was wrong for her audience and then when faced with re-writing it she just couldn't do it and stuck too much to the content of a book that she recognized could not be published?

On the FAQ page of her website she said that she was thinking of posting Forever Dawn on her website when Eclipse was out...but that was back when Eclipse was the last book in the series. If she keeps good on her promise maybe we can test this theory out. I want her to post it! I want this to be the missing link, the book we were supposed to get but didn't because it was maybe a little too racy!
ringbearer_89ringbearer_89 on August 6th, 2008 10:32 pm (UTC)
Re: WAIT, COULD THIS BE IT???
Or Breaking Dawn could be Forever Dawn...I read somewhere on Entertainment Weekly's website that Stephenie Meyer wrote a sequel to Twilight that she never showed to anyone, but she said that she put parts of it into Breaking Dawn..maybe the whole pregnancy storyline was the part where she "forgot what audience [she] was writing for." And then she was just like f-it. I'm going for it...and then failed miserably...
Kirstenfreak4theater on August 9th, 2008 05:41 pm (UTC)
Re: WAIT, COULD THIS BE IT???
That sounds verrrrry plausible. And yet still painful.
I would like her to post Forever Dawn too. Then at least we could have something to compare it to.
Kaileymajoractress3 on August 5th, 2008 07:03 am (UTC)
woohoo, first time I'm posting on here! I have to say I'm excited!

or...maybe a little nervous, since I think I have differing opinions, haha.

Before I start, let me just say, I think I am much to much an empathetic person for this book. When I read, I practically become the characters, forcing myself to see their way. I can't take myself out and look at it from an outside perspective. I just see it as it happens, and I'm wrapped up in it, and I can't see it any other way then how it's written. This might tint my view just a tad. *sigh* Thus is my sad, pathetic existence as a critic. All well, here I go.

1) Well, I knew Bella was gonna turn into a vampire. There was no way around it. I didn't know how long it would take, but I knew it was going to happen. I was of course super excited for the wedding! I'm a sucker for that sort of thing. As for Jacob, I just hoped he would imprint on someone so he wouldn't be so sad. I didn't really know what the conflict was going to be. I figured it would be the Voltouri, but I didn't know what the issue would be.

2) I knew after the first dream it meant something. Stephine always forshadows everrrrrrrrrrrything. I predicted the end of New Moon in chapter one. She never mentions something and lets it go. So, Immortal children were important. And once she had the dream on the island, I was almost positive she was pregnant, especially when she wanted to protect it. Just too much suggestion of it.

3) I was surprised at first, cause usually I guess every twist in these novels, and that was one I didn't expect. But, I really wasn't that disappointed. I just figured this was the big twist every novel waits for. I thought it came a little early on, but I knew that was it. I also knew the second Edward freaked out he was just worried about Bella. Which makes sense, since a half vampire baby is sooooooooooooo not a good idea. I also knew that motherly instinct had kicked into overdrive for Bella, and she was gonna have none of that.

4) At first, I was so mad. It was hard to stop picturing a girl in my head while I read. Plus, I thought the rest of the book was from his perspective, I was was doubly mad. Once I figured out it went back to Bella though, I felt better. I actually found it kind of cool to hear the whole pack dynamic thing. I honestly would have rather stayed with bella, but the Jacob thing wasn't bad. I loved his chapter titles. They cracked me up.

5) I felt like Bella was generally going crazy, but it all had to do with the maternal instinct thing. She would rather save baby than herself, which is rooted in most animals, so I hear. She just took it really far. But, she has always been like that, willing to sacrifice herself for the one she loves. Want to, more like it. And she really loved the baby. Even if it meant hurting Edward, she couldn't kill her child. Rosalie on the other hand really pissed me off. She we being so selfish, not even caring about Bella at all, just the killer baby. I wanted to punch her in the face, most of the book. Edward was going crazy, so he was pretty desperate. He was willing to hurt himself for the one he loved, so she could be happy. He is just one selfless guy. One of the big reasons why I've always loved him.

6) This was definitely my least favorite part of the book. Yes, I wanted Jacob to imprint, but on Bella's baby? A little creepy. I was still dealing with Quill imprinting on a two year old, and now Jacob too? At first, I didn't even know it had happened. I was so confused at the end of book two. I thought the baby was just an immortal child everyone loved, including Jacob. But apparently not... It felt really weird the entire book. I kind of oddly missed Jacob loving Bella too. I guess they made a cute brother sister pair, but it still creeps me out. I honestly think the werewolf thing could have been solved a different way.
Kaileymajoractress3 on August 5th, 2008 07:03 am (UTC)
7) The transformation was generally what I expected. The burning, the pain, all that stuff. I was a little surprised she was so un-newbornish, but I guess that was the only way she could be to keep the story moving. I never figured out whether her ability to stop her want for blood was from her shield power or cause she had so much knowledge of what she was getting into. I personally think it was the latter, but maybe that's just my hope that not all vampires start out as monsters.

8) Although I had never expected them to become parents, in the end, it wasn't that hard to see the transition. For me, they had never been teenage lovers. They'd always had something much stronger than that. I've always had a theory that vampires sort of imprinted just like werewolves. There never was a vampire "break up" mentioned; it always seemed like a pretty permanent deal. You found your person, you knew they were the one, and that was that (wish it was that simple in real life). For Edward, it just happened to be a human girl. They were far too intense for just teen infatuation, they'd been through too much together and shared too many secrets. It was hard to see them as parents since they were so young and had such a physical relationship. The fact that they were parents and still having wild passionate sex made me think of my parents...ok, not even gonna go there. But, yah, that made it difficult. But I could accept it easily enough.

9) I had no idea what Bella's superpower would be. I knew it would be something pretty awesome, but I had no idea what. The shield power was kind of cool, though I would have liked her to have a more offensive power. Releasing it in the field though was pretty awesome. And I thought Renesmee's power was actually really cute. I wish that all babies had that power. Then you would know exactly what they want all the time. Life would be so much easier!

10) I was so upset when Alice left. I really thought she had gone cause she was scared. The J. Jents address just seemed to add to my confirmation she was never coming back. When I thought about the Aro point of view, I was able to accept her leaving. But I had no idea what she was up too.

11) I did like getting to see all the new vampires, although it was hard at times to keep it all straight. My favorite was definitely the Amazon one who could put pictures in your head. Such a cool idea. I really didn't like Kate, though. She felt like a jerk to me. Too much like Jane.

12) While I had expected some fighting, I was really happy there was none. I was really convinced people were going to die. Possibly even Edward and Bella. It seemed to be totally leaning that way. I was on edge of me seat the whole time (or, well, I was sitting on the floor, so I guess I wasn't really on the edge of anything). When Alice came back I definitely wanted to do a happy flip. A little anti climactic at the end, I guess, but I was just so relieved no one died, I couldn't care.

13) What can I say? I love happy ever after. No one died, everything went back to generally normal. As normal as a vampire world gets. Renesmee is going to live, Edward and Bella will be together forever. It's all I could ask for. It's why I read books. To live the happy ending I know will never happen in real life. To escape the depressing reality for a good feeling fantasy. It wasn't an amazing ending. It definitely doesn't deserve an award. Something probably could have been done better, though I can't think up anything fantastic. But, it left me feeling like maybe there was a happy ending out there for everyone. That's how I like to feel, even if it's crazy to think.

14) I enjoyed the book as a whole. It's definitely not my favorite of the series by far, but it was a fun story to follow, and I definitely strengthened my love for Edward, as I always do. Could stuff have been better? Probably. But, I've got nothing better to think up. Guess that's why I'm not a writer, haha.
ringbearer_89ringbearer_89 on August 6th, 2008 10:35 pm (UTC)
Maybe it's just us old cynical ladies that (would hate be to strong a word?...) extremely disliked Breaking Dawn, because my cousin (she's 16) likes it...
Kaileymajoractress3 on August 7th, 2008 05:49 am (UTC)
haha, maybe this is possible. But maybe your not cynical old ladies. You've probably just had more experience with better books :)
I'm too persuadable anyways.
Kirstenfreak4theater on August 9th, 2008 05:50 pm (UTC)
I'm really glad that you enjoyed the book, Kails, and I'm pleased that it didn't disappoint EVERYone. And thank you for providing a different point of view to your post-- we like to vary our discussions here at Sparticus Ni.

I, too, was glad that Bella and Edward lived to see another day and will live happily forever after, even though it seemed they got their ending a little too easily.
I never thought about J. Jents being a confirmation of Alice's departure! I was so preoccupied with the wild-goose-chase feel to it that I didn't think about it's deeper implications. Still, Alice returned in the end, so I guess it was a moot point, but I can see why Bella would find the meeting so meaningful.